My problems with the Lupin/Tonks ship - Harry Potter Essays
Daisy said: Let's think about this, I love Tonks, and I LOVE Lupin, and until As evidenced by the fact that he never had a serious relationship until Tonks told. Tonk and Lupin standing together from the Half Blood Prince The romance of Nymphadora Tonks and Remus Lupin happened, for the most part, off the page. May 2, I swapped [Lupin and Tonks] for Mr. Weasley. director Alfonso Cuarón saw the Lupin/Black relationship the same way, and, when he directed.Just Give Me A Reason (Remus/Tonks) [Harry Potter]
And he loved Tonks too in a special way unique to his relationship with her. Lillbet September 18th,5: I couldn't put my finger on it at first, but I felt the same way.
It seemed as though Lupin was meant to fill the void left by Sirius, but that there was a lot of history and build-up that was just plain left out.
It's the same with Lupin and Tonks- we never see them happy together until the very end, so it was a bit awkward to be asked to believe that they were a couple.
Of course, Harry doesn't see everything that's happening, but at the same time he does see a great deal. One could argue that Lupin and Harry became close in PoA and GoF, but that didn't imo lead to the sudden closeness they shared here. Also the way he was so worried about how his marriage to her had ruined her life. If his feelings towards her had not temporaily overidden his reservations then he would not have married her. Also, why would Arthur, Molly etc.
I seriously doubt that everyone would encourage a relationship that either wasn't there or would be one-sided. I doubt Lupin saw it, but sometimes, an outsider's view is essential.
Harry didn't see it until the end of HBP. I would say it was Harry's nature as written. And yet, he loved him very much. Harry was with Remus more time overall than he was with Sirius, so it wasn't surprising to me that they would develop a relationship. I agree we as readers were forced along in both cases - but we just have to figure that we didn't see everything. We know here were times when we were not shown things; there were times Harry was just 'with Sirius' at the house Christmas and we don't know what went on.
We'd go from one day to the next and in a sentence JKR would narrate that 'the end of Christmas arrived'. So one has to assume that during those times Harry got closer with both Remus and Sirius. At some point Harry stopped calling Remus 'professor Lupin', as did Hermione - when did that happen? We didn't see it - we can only suspect it was in HBP when they were together at the house. We never saw Harry give Sirius a hug or tell him he cared or loved him, but since the story ended up that way, we have to accept it happened for Harry - same with Remus.
And in fact, same with Tonks Tonks and Remus' relationship was completely off page and so it too could seem forced on the reader as were Ginny and Harry - but we just have to accept that it evolved off page. They certainly didn't go from holding hands at the funeral to married without speaking to one another merely because we didn't see it imo. Harry loved Arthur Weasley as well, but they had so little interaction that we saw, many would hardly credit it.
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But the closeness that Harry felt for the Weasley parents was something else that we were to assume based on JKR's interview indicating that he did. But I think in the end that inter-relationships with the exception of the trio was not the focus of the book.
It would have taken an extra pages per book to develop all of the relationships we saw formed and that would have changed the character of the series.
Still, imo, while much was left up to our imagination, it was nice that couples like Tonks and Remus and Harry and Ginny got together and that Harry attained a closeness with various individuals in the background. For me it just made the story richer. But we did not see much of Bill and Fluer either in any of the books Yet in the sixth book when Fluer holds on to Bill even though he is severely injured It made me root for that couple and love them.
But when Tonks screamed only moments later at Remus I was rather taken aback. I was like "where did this come from" and I couldn't connect with them no matter how hard I tried. It was sort of forced and surreal. It came out of nowhere and made no sense to me.
Yes he was like a distant uncle that Harry respected and nothing more Therefore the way they talked to one another in the seventh book felt very out of place Like someone practicing lines for some play.
They seemed to play parts Yet in the sixth book when Fluer holds on to Bill even though he is severely injured made me connect with that couple Therefore the way they talk to one another in the seventh book felt very out of place Like someone was practicing lines for some play.
I understand what you mean. I guess my imagination is always ready to fill in the blanks because I read so much fantasy. So I could easily move along with what JKR was doing.
You love Sirius, so it was likely very easy for you to fill in any blanks as you read - but when I first read POA and then OOTP, I was shocked to find out at the end that Harry was so fond of him - they had just not been together much at all.
But I just went with the flow. On re-reading I allowed myself to see things slightly differently, knowing that there are feelings developing that on the original read I did not allow for. Bill and Fleur may have captured you due to the circumstances, but others may have seen that the same way you see Remus and Tonks. I mean we had only just heard about them at the start of the book - but they may have been dating for a while.
Others loved the idea of Ginny and Harry and had lots of time to develop the story in their heads - but if you didn't really care about that particular love story one way or the other like meobjectively, there was terribly little written between them and nothing to go on except imagination.
Yet, I went with the flow and just assumed that everyone's feelings were moving along as JKR indicated.
But I do understand how the relationships could all seem forced and out of no where - I mean, I don't really recall Harry speaking to Arthur directly more than 3 times, but according to JKR he loves him too. So, we just have to imagine: But the relationship between Harry and Sirius was intense I am sure that I didn't imagine it: I don't usually disagree with you ok I never disagree with you: You are right I do love Sirius but we do see a lot of interaction between Sirius and Harry.
Sirius sends him owls daily Sirius was the one Harry confided in when he had problems. In the fifth book, it was even more pronounced. Sirius visits Harry through the fire And in the third book, Harry hates Sirius with a gusto.
They have some pretty intense scenes in that book Scenes that are quite possibly the most popular ones in the whole series. And that intensity of hatred was just as easily converted into love when Harry found out the truth And the truth was this very heavy and intense revelation. We don't see that with Remus and Harry. Harry and Remus may care for one another but Harry never saw him as a confidante So in the seventh book their interactions were painful I wish JK had given us one moment with Remus and Tonks that was believable Well Padfoot, you say "we see", but I didn't see what you saw.
I didn't see most of what you saw with Harry and Sirius, lol. But that is what I mean, we fill in the blanks and come up with what we personally see. You say Harry and Sirius spent and entire summer together - when? He spent the end of the summer at Grimmauld, shortly before returning to School - at which time Remus was there as was Arthur. We heard a few conversations with Harry and Sirius and none of them brotherly - in my opinion, they were more like mentor or godfather like.
When Harry was upset and told Sirius of a problem he had, Sirius sent him off to bed with a hand on the shoulder. That was probably seen by you as a loving gesture, but I was wondering myself why he didn't hug the kid. So I think it really depends on how you see things. I don't recall daily owls either - but I may have merely read it without noticing, but because I read, tuning in on Remus, not Sirius, lol.
You say Harry never saw Remus as a confidant, and yet, I recall Harry confiding in him 4 times off of the top of my head - and the occassion you mentioned the ShackRemus did most of the talking. When Harry asked to see Sirius in OOTP and Remus went to get him - Remus did most of the talking then too and was the one to think of how Snape might react and get on him for it and then Sirius joined in.
Remus in HBP told Harry that he hadn't written because of being underground - but it is likely most people don't recall that at all - and why would he say that? Why would he think Harry would think he would write? Well most won't even ask the question, they just go on reading.
I do not say any of that to indicate that Harry didn't love Sirius to death, because I know he did - but just to point out that readers see things differently depending on how they are reading.
Sirius and Remus giving a xmas present to Harry together in OOTP takes on a different meaning in light of the fact that at the end we find out he loved them both and visa versa. When I first read it, I figured Remus picked out the gift books and Sirius paid. Later I thought, they likely discussed it, in light of my differnt outlooks on their relationships. Do you see what I mean? So I think it just depends on the reader and the impression you have based on what you wish to take away from the story.
Remus' speech to Harry at 12G I am sure shocked many - just as Harry breaking up things in DD's office did when Sirius died I was shocked, it seemed out of character for Harry and I hadn't thought he'd come to love Sirius - it is all a matter of viewpoint and perspective I think. Lupin and Tonks - we have to fill in the entire relationship. I think it is hard for some to do and not for others. Again, I think it just depends on the reader.
But, in the scheme of things, everyone will see things distinctly and that is, in and of itself, a wonderful thing. And I respect your view, although we didn't get the same impression from the reading. We should maybe go to owls cuz this is kind of off topic, lol. Lupin and Harry were pretty close as Harry summoned Lupin back with the ressurection stone, showing he cared about him a lot.
Now going back to the believability of the Lupin and Tonks thing Like Harry and Ginny, it was largely in the background. I fully believe that J.
Lupin and Tonks: the relationship [Archive] - Chamber of Secrets
K Rowling would not have written it so that Lupin did not love Tonks. What would be the point of putting two of the good guys together, having them marry and have a good kid, having every good character approve of the relationship and then not having them love each other? Sorry to put it so simplistically, but I think it makes sense. After all, there is as much evidence that Lupin loved Tonks as there is that Lily loved James, but that appears to go without saying.
Polaris17 September 19th,1: It was definitely unsatisfactory, in any case. I think they met through the order because I always imagined Tonks to be a lot younger than Remus so I don't see how they could've met before. They probably started really dating at the end of HBP after Dumbledore's death but they started having feelings for each other sometime during the end of Ootp and HBP Remus probably rejected her and that's why she became so depressed.
The same thing happened when Tonks was pregnant he probably felt disgusted at the idea that he might've passed his problem onto another person because he knew how hard it was to live as a werewolf. They became a couple late in HBP if I remember rightly. I believe that Lupin definitely did love Tonks as much as she did him which resulted in what seemed like coldness. He cared for her so much that he would do anything to protect her, even if it meant that they could not be together.
It was really noble of him I suppose. It would be hard to do such a thing when you love someone so much but obviously Tonks loved him too much accept his reasoning behind it; she wanted them to be together despite everything. MmeBergerac September 19th,2: I suppose that they were brought closer than the usual among members of the Order because of Sirius, best friend of one and relative of the other, who, besides, needed a lot of company.
I think they soon became good friends you know, I can't figure Tonks telling that of "You'd prefer it if your mother had called you Nymphadora" to Kingsley or Arthur and soon it grew something more serious: They completed each other, you know.
I think they were beginning as a couple when the battle at the MoM took place. Then Sirius died, Tonks was injured, and I think Lupin got a bit scared of loosing her. So when DD sent him with the werewolves, he split up with her with the excuse of his task, and she got depressed; and the more he was among the werewolves, the most he convinced himself that he didn't deserve her. Here's where I suppose the 'million times' took place, but, as she couldn't make him change his mind, she got still more depressed.
I think he Remus loved her more than his life and thought sincerely that she was the best had ever happened to him. But when he realized the kind of life scorn, discrimination, etc that marrying him would imply for her, he thought he had ruined her.
He probably feared that one day his love wouldn't be enough to make up for all she and their child would have to endure. Let's remember that poor Remus has a depressive character. It doesn't justify thinking of abandoning her, but I can understand the situation.
I've read many of you never could see Remus and Tonks as a couple. It's true that we see them very little together, but I can imagine them perfectly. Of course, it's perfect! Polaris I think most of us definitely wish for a more detailed account of Remus and Tonks' relationship: However, Harry's story must take precedence: But in a way, having little to go on is good too, as we can each have our own perspective on it. Ifink2much September 19th,7: I don't see that Remus loved Tonks.
Having said that I know that Rowling meant for it to seem so,otherwise she wouldn't have had them get together,get married and have a child. I can't help it,I still find them terrible ill-suited. That is definite in my opinion, it just obviously did not work for you, which is of course an opinion you are completely entitled to.
Solaris23 September 20th,3: These two just did not gel or feel natural to me and more often than not came off as totally random and Even when they had Teddy I got the feeling that Remus was forced or tricked into it and though he seemed to love the idea of having a son after Teddy was born, it seems like a small repreive for what Remus was probably still viewing as a big mistake he made in marrying Tonks. It was very disheartening for me to see him falter like that.
I realize JKR wants to show that her characters have faults like everyone else, and that it probably revealed Harry's maturity in that Remus confided and leaned on him and Harry was able to speak to him as an equal.
But all that doesn't diminish my feelings. I felt much like Harry did, though I wouldn't have been so rude to Lupin. I can totally understand that.
We didn't see Tonks and Remus together hardly at all - and when we did, Remus was in his "worry" state. We never saw them together again after that, but because JKR meant for us to understand they were in love and Remus had determined to make the best of it and was happy with his decision, his wife and child, I just went with it. I was and am really just a Remus fan, so his marriage and child was just something I thought was wonderful for him to have been able to experience.
Most werewolves did not have the opportunity to do so within society and I think Remus, who wanted so much to be a part of society, would have really been happy to have been able to experience the 'traditional home life' he'd only experienced as a child until he was bitten and after that had only seen from afar - after accepting the idea of it for himself of course. Remus was a very strong character, despite his furry little problem, and due to his very firm beliefs, I don't feel he could have been tricked into anything - he never blamed Tonks, he carried that burden on his own.
He knew he was equally responsible for the decisions he made regarding Tonks and Teddy imo. I know he worried about his wife and son being shunned - but JKR took care of that and allowed him and Tonks to continue their relationship in the after-life where he'd no longer have to worry about it.
And she made the 'new world' Wizard world through the changes in the Ministry occur - which she indicated that she wrote just to let us know that Teddy had had a happy life not outcast and shunned due to his father being a werewolfso Remus would be happy about that too. So from my perspective, it all worked out wonderfully for him and so I just take for granted that he and Tonks loved one another as JKR intended. I just fill in the blanks as I did with Harry and Ginny and others.
It is kinda cool because I can fill them in any way I want. SusanBones September 20th,6: I really like the way JK Rowling has presented Lupin. He seems to be someone who is very insecure. He doesn't really like being different. However, the two seemed to grow closer afterward, attending the funeral of Albus Dumbledore together.
They both expressed regret that Harry could not attend. Around this time Tonks became pregnant. This may have been because of several reasons: Remus was extremely upset by the pregnancy. He believed that by marrying Tonks he had made her an outcast among society, because of his lycanthropyas well as feared that he would pass on his affliction to their child. Tonks' murder was avenged by her order colleague and friend Molly Weasley. After her death, her son was raised by her mother and Harry Potter.
Her mother noticed that Tonks changed hair colour on the day of her birth, meaning she was a Metamorphmagus. Hogwarts years The Sorting ceremonywith a pink-haired Tonks in the front Tonks began her first year at Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry in and was Sorted into Hufflepuff House at the Sorting ceremony. Third year This was the first year in which students were able to take at least two elective classes, it is unknown which electives Tonks signed up for.
Also in the — school yearat the start of the Herbology lesson on Valerian Sprigs, Tonks warned people to watch out, for she spilled some soil on the floor. When the Herbology Professor, also her Head of HousePomona Sproutasked fellow Housemate Penny Haywood to fetch a pail for the watering demonstration, Tonks took the time to briefly wonder aloud about which plant being most suitable for bothering a certain "irritable, birdlike" librarian. The musing was cut short by Penny's scream, and the class realised in shock that a werewolf burst out of a pot.
Professor Sprout took care of the situation by casting the Boggart-Banishing Spelland introduced the class to what a Boggart was. As Professor Sprout left to report the incident to Headmaster Albus DumbledoreTonks asked Jacob's sibling in puzzlement about Penny's fear, implying she did not understand why Penny's worst fear would be werewolves.
After the lesson Tonks revealed she had crashed into the Owlerythe Astronomy Towerthe Whomping Willowand Rubeus Hagrid's gardenbut that apparently was a few crashes fewer than her average. Tonks also revealed that she had often gotten detentions for turning into teachers using her Metamorphmagus abilities.