The bad: The origins of Daenerys's relationship with Khal Drogo are The khal is gruff, has no time for delicacy, and solves his problems. Explore the pros and cons of the debate Khal Drogo Did Not Rape Daenerys the main issue is that such a marriage would have been non-consensual, and. Drogo, a powerful Dothraki khal and feared warrior meets Daenerys, the future and Daenerys's brother, Viserys Targaryen, who hoped to use Drogo's Dothraki horde fealty to Viserys as King and offers him his support and advice, which is accepted. Robert's spies have learned of Daenerys's marriage to Drogo, whose.
She hoped Mirri would save her sickly husband. However, using her pagan witchcraft, she made sure that Daenerys miscarried, and Drogo ended up braindead. This was all revenge. Particularly seeing that austere coldness shift over her face. Is that the beginning of a wise leader or a brutal dictator?
All they do is kill and screw. Once in a while, someone might eat or take a nap, but in general, those are their two big pastimes. They are difficult to command and, as we covered, fond of sexual assault. Dany herself is bothered by this, but not enough to do anything about it. She has a problem: There will be a great amount of suffering brought to the civilians whose cities they pillage in Westeros.
For someone who wants to bring freedom and fight for the voiceless, she has no problem letting a bunch of those little people be violated or killed along the way.
The Khals run the Dothraki armies. Look, love her or hate her, that scene was the series at its best and brought us to where Daenerys needed to be for a long time.
Game of Thrones season 8 theory: What now for Daenerys Targaryen and Jon Snow?
Things did not go swimmingly. She and the old leadership were constantly at odds, using the Chicago Way method of attrition to thin out the herd. We already covered how Dany had to be talked into giving a Son of the Harpy a fair trial, but we left out some of the juicier incidents. Dany is many things, but subtle, measured, and diplomatic—no, not some of her more finely-tuned qualities. Seems like a good choice. Fast forward to next season. She is a conqueror and brutal fascist.
She also burns people alive and crucifies them. In short, Viserys is saying: Get Khal Drogo to marry you or I will beat you. Sansa was a Lannister hostage and forced to marry. Is Daenrys any difference? She is a "guest," yes, but not by choice. She has no where to go and is effectively a hostage to her psychopath brother who just threatened to hurt her if she doesn't get married to Khal Drogo. Is that not forcing her to marry? I want to go home. I want us both to go home. But they took it from us.
So tell me, sweet sister, how do we go home? We go home with an army. Here is her saying "No" to the entire ordeal. She did not say it to Khal Drogo, nor could she, but that is immaterial. She clearly objected and was against the very idea and only went along with it under threat of punishment and out of fear of her brother. He also states his sister's value to him: And now, the final scene: A small gift for the new Khaleesi.
Songs and histories from the Seven Kingdoms. Are you from my country? Ser Jorah Mormont of Bear Island. I served your father for many years. Gods be good, I hope to always serve the rightful king. From the Shadow Lands beyond Asshai. The ages have turned them to stone, but they will always be beautiful. The Dothraki crowd behind her as she goes. The KHAL leads her to a white mare.
Game Of Thrones: Daenerys' Most WTF Moments | ScreenRant
He touches the tears on her face. Do you know the Common Tongue? The threat of punishment goes unsaid. This is immediately before the "consummation," the consummation in which she cries in protest and attempts to cover up before being taken by a much more intimidating, physically stronger, Dothraki warlord.
Let's review my opponent's criteria again: I submit that all of my opponent's criteria have been met and that this must be classified as a rape. Pro I thank drafterman for an intelligent and substantive response. His case is almost exactly how I imagined a CON case would be for this resolution, and I am fully prepared to rebut it. Scene 1 Yes, Viserys Vis is an abusive prick. This is evident in how Dany does indeed initially object to the marriage in scene 2.
Somehow, from Vis being a prick, CON concludes that Dany never had a choice in anything, to include even where they are staying. A map of Essos shows that Vis and Dany had their pick of cities to choose from between Pentos and Vaes Dothrak, and probably chose Pentos simply because it was the closest city to King's Landing across the Narrow Sea: Vis treats Illyrio as if he's a future subject of his kingdom, not as a gracious host, and Illyrio most certainly does not treat Vis as if he had any real power over him.
They easily had their choice as to where they would stay and how they would manage their private affairs. This is very, very different from Sansa's situation. Sansa indeed had no choice in her marriage to Tyrion nor any choice about leaving King's Landing without Lannister approval. Well, it most certainly sounds like from the dialogue that Vis convinced Dany that his plan was the best chance they had to realize their dream of going home - never mind the snide comment at the end.
The relationship between Daenerys and Drogo - Classic Stockholm Syndrome? : pureasoiaf
This, and not any visible threat, silenced Dany's objections, meaning that she was convinced of the logic of the plan, and agreed to it. It's a fair trade - Drogo gets a bride with a name of tremendous worth, the Targaryens get their army, and Illyrio sends the Dothraki back to Vaes Dothrak peacefully, thus leaving Pentos unharmed. Scene 3 CON's purpose in bringing up this scene is only the last line, where Vis makes it clear that at this point, there is a lot riding pun intended on Dany's ability to perform.
Vis's comment, while threatening, is no more threatening than having a contractual obligation hanging over your head that you've yet to meet. And, this particular contract is exceptionally threatening - we know that Pentos routinely bribes the Dothraki in order to deter them from sacking the city http: In the forum thread attached in round 1, a very good example of skydiving was brought up.
Once you jump out of that plane, there are certain steps you must take such as pulling the chord, or else your experience at skydiving will become fatal. Similarly, once this marriage was agreed upon, there were certain steps all parties involved had to take, else the experience would become fatal.
One of these steps was that the marriage had to be consummated, something that Dany agreed to do upon agreeing to the marriage. The real question to ask is did Dany jump off this particular plane? The answer is of course R2 To address CON's concluding remarks: That the marriage ceremony happened as a consequence clearly speaks to this.
Dany was not a slave. CON is stretching the significance of a rape scene between Cercei and Jaime to explain the interactions between Dany and Drogo. The two scenes are materially different. The show does a very good job in depicting Dany's circumstances. In the very first scene of the second episode, we're treated to Dany's new lifestyle, all within 5 minutes of screentime - it consists of eating horse jerky, visible apprehension of Drogo, and getting carried off her horse almost on a stretcher.
IMHO this was a great choice by the show's producers to depict how hard it was for Dany to adjust to her new life, and is much, much more believable than the book's rendition of their night of consummation, where we're led to believe that Drogo, without any words, is able to seduce a woman he's never met over one evening without any wining or dining and get her to have sex with him in order to consummate a long-term arrangement like a marriage.
IMHO that's insulting to a woman's sensibilities and decision-making capabilities Conclusion My case stands - the marriage was consensual, agreeable to both Vis and Dany, and thus consummation was expected and consensual. This was not rape. My opponent has conceded that Daenrys objected to the marriage. However, my opponent then imagines that consent was somehow granted simply because Daenerys and her brother have the same goals and she lacks a different plan.
She was not convinced that Viserys plan was the way to go, she was intimidated into doing so. If I tell you to give me your money, and you refuse, and then I hold a gun to your head, and then you give me your money, did convince you to give me your money?
You did it out of fear and intimidation and I would still be guilty of robbery. Viserys comments are not simply that he would not mind seeing his sister engage in an orgy - which is a passive statement - but that he would actively work to bring that about if it would get him what he wanted. The takeaway here is that his sister has no free will that he recognizes and defiance will result in being physically abused. At the end of the day we have explicit, irrefutable statement, agreed upon by my opponent that Daenerys objected to the marriage and nothing to suggest she changed her mind.
She was bullied into silence. It is clear from dialogue that Daenerys is, essentially, a captive of her brother. Beyond the subordinate role of women in Westerosi society, Viserys clearly is domineering and controlling of his sister. In his mind he is already king and she is a subject that owes him complete obedience.
The idea that the mere existence of other cities means Daenerys was free to go is absurd. My opponent equates the situation with a contractual obligation that Daenrys must now oblige.
He seems to have forgotten that Daenerys was threatened into this "contract" to begin with and contracts made under such circumstances are null and void. Daenerys objected to the arrangement and went through with it under duress as a result of the threats of her brother. My opponent acknowledges that Viserys threatened Daenerys. He futher asserts that Daenerys agreed to the marraige.
Provide any scene in the show that demonstrates Daenerys' agreement to this marraige. All I see is her being threatened and intimidated into passively going along with what she has been forced into. Furthermore, the mere existence of the marriage ceremony is proof of nothing, since you admit the forced marriage of Sansa to Tyrion does not permit him to have sex with her.
Non-consent expressed, no consent ever expressed. In this situation, the clear and unequivical statement of non-consent trumps any perceived and unstated consent, especially since it relies solely on your assertion that it is obvious.
You raised this point to demonstrate that the sexual act caused a divide between them, further reinforcing it as a non-consentual sex act. I do the same here. Provide a single scene where Daenrys agreed to anything.
The ends do not justify the means. For Viserys to threaten Dany at this point has nothing to do with whether or not she was coerced into the marriage to begin with - the marriage itself was a threatening affair, and Vis was simply adding emphasis to this point to ensure that Dany did not mess up. CON's scene 3 point has been fully rebutted.
In that scene, there was no coercion. Given that Dany was not a slave, all of this is easily enough to substantiate that Dany was not raped on her wedding night, because Dany agreed to the marriage, and all marriages were expected to be consummated. Rebuttal Was Dany a slave?
This is now the central question of the debate. I will proffer an analogy: Imagine a game of chess, with Vis and Dany as players. We all know that there are certain positions that would compel a player to move as their opponent wanted if that player wanted to win, but the player still has free will to move his or her own pieces as they see fit.
The question that CON poses then is not whether or not Vis is a better player than Dany, but rather whether or not Vis is moving Dany's pieces against her will. In scene 2, we evidently see Dany voicing her own arguments against the marriage, essentially questioning how it was relevant to them going back to King's Landing.
Vis then offers his own arguments, that this was exactly how they were going home Dany had nothing to say to this. There was no coercion from Vis in this scene. This is akin to Dany moving a piece, and then Vis moving his own piece, and then Dany forfeiting the game, acknowledging checkmate.
Vis then rubs it in her face afterward with the snide comment about the orgy. Again, there was no coercion from Vis in this scene Vis is simply a better player at the game at this point - he does not move Dany's pieces. Dany is simply a terrible player at this point, although she learns very quickly after getting married. It proves that Dany consented to the marriage, and was not forced into it.
This scene illustrates what marriage meant to Dany: In the scene she saves female captives from becoming slaves. When confronted about the apparent Dothraki "right to rape", Dany rebuts that if they want sex, they should do it properly, via marriage. This strongly implies that 1 once a woman is given free will, 2 that woman expresses that free will via consent to marriage.
This describes Dany's views on marriage, and thus Dany's own marriage as well.